182 | 4 key business elements that can hinder business growth with Adi Vaxman, CEO of Sheba Consulting

Companies do not grow in a linear way, they grow in spurts. And when a growth spurt happens, all the small issues that the company is experiencing are amplified into serious problems. 

In this episode, we explore the key factors that can make or break a business in today's world, and that many companies fail to address before they start growing. 

Our guest, Adi Vaxman, CEO of Sheba Consulting, shares her insights on the four critical areas that companies must focus on to succeed: mindset, culture, people, and information systems.

💥 Mindset is everything. Companies need to adopt a growth mindset and be willing to embrace change and take risks.

💥 Culture is key to attracting and retaining top talent. Companies need to define their values, mission, and vision, and make sure everyone in the organization is aligned with them.

💥 People are the most important asset in any company. Hiring the right people and investing in their development is crucial to the success of the organization.

💥 Information systems are essential for streamlining processes and driving efficiency. Companies need to know how to evaluate and implement the right systems for their specific needs.

Adi also emphasizes the importance of flexibility and agility in today's business world, where the rate of change is rapid. Companies must be able to adapt to new technologies and market trends quickly to remain competitive.

Adi provides valuable insights for business owners and leaders looking to stay ahead of the curve and build a successful and sustainable organization.

Listen to the episode to learn what common mistakes business leaders and owners are making, so you can avoid than at your business.


Connect with Adi on Linkedin
Check out Sheba consulting

Hi, It's Isar the host of the Business Growth Accelerator Podcast
I am passionate about growing businesses and helping CEOs, business leaders, and entrepreneurs become more successful. I am also passionate about relationship building, community creation for businesses, and value creation through content.
I would love it if you connect with me on LinkedIn. Drop me a DM, and LMK you listened to the podcast, what you think and what topics you would like me to cover 🙏

Transcript

Isar Meitis: 0:00

hello and welcome to the Business Growth Accelerator. This is Isar Matis, your host, and we're going to talk about an extremely important topic today that I haven't touched in a very long time, and that is the issue of growth of companies and what happens when companies grow. And companies do not grow in a linear way. They experience growth spurts. It happens suddenly your product is aligned, or the market fits, or something happens and the company starts growing very, very fast. Now the problem is when this happens, it makes every small problem within the business crystallize and get amplified in a very dramatic way, which sometimes just slows down the growth, but in extreme cases, it can actually put the company in danger. The problem is it's very, very hard to deal with those situations while the company is growing very fast because all your resources are stretched really thin. So the question is, what do you do? How can you prep in advance so your company doesn't go through this very common phenomena of growth the next time your company grows? And the answer is, they are common points of failure that you can plan for in advance, in order to reduce their impact. Our guest today is Adi Vaxman. She's the founder and CEO of Shiba Consulting. She held multiple COO positions in companies, large and small, and she's an expert in setting companies for growth. So she's the perfect person to discuss and share with us her knowledge and her real world experience. On how to prep your company for growth so you don't bang your head into those standard walls that everybody else does. And since this is a common thing that a lot of people go through, I'm really, really excited to have her on the show. Adi, welcome to the Business Growth Accelerator.

Adi Vaxman: 2:53

Hey, thank you so much for having me.

Isar Meitis: 2:56

Awesome. Quick question before we dive into the actual issue. Why is it, like, why do companies go through these growth spurts and how do you know that they're

Adi Vaxman: 3:07

coming? That's a big question. So first of all, I think we should maybe define what the growth spurt is. And I think, defining a growth spurt as a Fairly quick accelerated, growth from a certain level that a company has been in for a while and kind of got comfortable in managing to the next level. And typically in my life, I see this happening around when companies hit the million dollars revenue a year, and then again at around 3, 5, 10, 20 and 50, more or less. It's not exact numbers. And it also happens when you get to certain number of employees, which usually correlates with the levels of revenue. And so when those growth spurts happen, the company goes through growth. It could be from you know, clients coming in, it's always good reasons, right? could be from multiple clients coming in, could be from a marketing campaign, could be from referrals, could be from you know, different reasons, new products, whatever the reason is. market changes. And then companies experience those times where business owners are finding themselves in a situation that their entire infrastructure and the framework that they've been working on so far doesn't necessarily fit or can't necessarily withhold the growth.

Isar Meitis: 4:26

Okay. I, I think that's a great definition. Right. So it's the, the problem that you're, basically, the underlying problem that you're describing is the company is, Built always to work at the level it is actually operating and, and that's from an HR perspective, from a systems perspective, from a processor's perspective, from an IT stack perspective, from all those perspectives, you cannot run a business bigger than it needs to be because A, that makes you inefficient. And B, it doesn't make any sense, right? Why would you build all that extra capacity when you don't actually need it? The problem becomes once you need that capacity, if you did not. Have some prep for that, then you hit correct either one wall or multiple walls, which like I said, can either prevent you from growing out as fast as you could, or in some cases can put the actual company at risk because your balance sheet gets completely outta whack and your cash flow can get completely crazy and you may run out of money or lose key employees or whatever the case may be. Let's talk a little bit about what are really these common points of failure? And again, just to frame it, I didn't say that in the intro, but ad. Beyond her consulting company. She herself is a fractional coo, o o, at several businesses. So she has seen this firsthand. It's not like, oh, I've read about it in a book. She has enough scars to probably tell enough stories over and over again for more than one episode. So that in mind, let's go over some of the main key failure points that company experience, and how really can we plan for each and every.

Adi Vaxman: 6:05

So first before I start, I wanna say that I don't necessarily agree that you can't or you shouldn't plan for it. obviously you don't wanna operate at a level you know, so far beyond what you are, because it's expensive and it doesn't make financial sense. however, You really should plan for it and should try to implement the key infrastructure components to be ready for that growth when it comes, especially when, when you know it's coming. and unfortunately, most of our clients and most of the companies that I see in, in my, professional life don't do that. And I would say, Probably 97 to 98% of them, come to us after they already have a serious problem and some damage has been done. And the one or 2% that do come to us planning ahead for the growth are having a much easier journey and more time to plan and more time to get used to the new systems and so on and so

Isar Meitis: 6:59

forth. Um, let's see. Something from my personal experience, both myself and the companies I ran, as well as companies I'm working with and helping in different hats, it usually. Is a thing of experience, like people who are not CEOs or CEOs for the first time, if you have an experienced C-Suite, people like, okay, this is what's gonna happen next. Okay, let's start preparing. Versus if you're doing this for the first or second time, you're probably really happy that things are happening and you're not planning two steps ahead. And so that's again, for my very personal experience, that's what I've seen.

Adi Vaxman: 7:32

And that's true, and that's why the fractional leadership model works so well, which is what I do for a living, right? Because these smaller companies can't really afford, and the level of experience that they need in order to get them through those growth spurts. well, and so they compromise on, less experienced people or cheaper talent, and then they don't get what they need. So you asked about the areas that I think, That I see business owners kind of stumbling upon and hindering their growth. And I think that I would focus on probably four main kind of buckets of things. and they're not necessarily infrastructure pieces because those also exist, but they're really more, kind of areas in the business. I think the first and foremost, the number one thing, believe it or not, sort of the mindset of a business owner, and what I call being kind of stuck in the mindset of a small business. So when you grow, you have to change how you operate. You have to change how you manage. You have to change your team. You have to change your organizational structure. You have to change a lot of things, and you no longer as a business owner, you no longer. have all of these talents, every single one. Maybe few people do, but most of us don't. And so you need to get out of that mindset of, you know, you're leading your business, you're managing it from the professional perspective of what you know, what your business is doing. and understand that the business itself is, is a business that needs attention. and I'm talking about things like, you know, a lot of business owners, especially in the first, I would say between. The one in the 10 million phase. but also I've seen some in the a hundred million phase that are still stuck in that place. working from their gut, working, you know, making decisions based on feelings. And I'm not downplaying intuition at all because I do, you know, I'm a big believer in listening to your intuition, but also. Working without metrics, working without KPIs, managing your business according to, I think we're here, but I don't know that we're here. And what is here and what are the things that you need to measure in order to understand your successes and what are the margins that you need to operate in. things like not being able to admit that they can't manage this growth on their own. It's, it's hard. It's hard to admit that. It's hard to give away control. It's hard to say. I don't have the skills, the experience, or even the motivation. a lot of people's ego gets in the way. and all of us have an ego. The question is, do we know how to check it? You know, check it at the door when we come in and do something. and that takes, that unfortunately takes time and experience. And I, I'm gonna sound really old, but age too. Because when you get to a certain age, you realize that that ego that you've been holding onto is really in your way, and it's not really helping you. but it takes time to get there. Not delegating, holding onto control, having a hard time trusting. All of these things to me are part of this like mindset, right? You're still operating like you're a small business and as soon as you realize that you need to put that mindset aside and start working on all of these things, and a lot of them are in you, a lot of them are things that are in yourself, that you gotta work on. It's not.

Isar Meitis: 10:35

I love it. I love what you're saying, and again, I, I want to touch on two points from, from my experience and from other people that I've interviewed. So from my experience, I think the amazing thing is how liberating it is when you have the right team around you. Yes. Right. It's suddenly you have people who can do tasks better than you, and I'm talking about major tasks, running, marketing, running operations, developing a product, whatever the case that you're doing. There are people out there who do those particular things better than the founder, by definition. And if you hire these people, it's like, oh my God, I'm less busy, the business is running better. I can sleep at night. I don't have to worry about 10,000 things. I can worry about 10 things. And yet I know the other, whatever, you know, 9,900 and whatever I did, I didn't do the math. will will still. Well, because there's capable people in that place. So that, from a very personal perspective of this, I interviewed the lady a while ago, a long time ago, and she said something that I absolutely love, and she started her own business after being in a senior position in a large business. And one of the first things she did, She drew an org chart and put it on the wall in front of her in the office and put numbers in each and every one of them of how much it will cost her to fill those positions with a talented person, and said, okay, this is a hundred thousand, 60,000, 75,000, 135,000, and she ranked them at the things she needed the most amount of help. Compared to her skills and wishes of the stuff she had to do, like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and she said, as soon as I have this cash flow, I'm hiring this person. As soon as I have this cash flow, I'm hiring, and it's such a brilliant way to build a business. The problem is, it's motivating too. Don't do that. Right?

Adi Vaxman: 12:24

Yes. So, you know, I, I equate the growth spurt of a business to those of a baby. and to me it's very similar to, you know, you if you are raising a child and you're a single parent or if you're raising a child and you have a partner, no matter who that partner is, could be a parent, it could be a brother, a sister, whatever. And there's a big difference because, The weight of the world is on your shoulders. And as soon as you start expanding that leadership team, you're not alone anymore. But the trick is to bring in the right people. And that brings me to my second kind of point, in our, in our fourth point list, is that a lot of businesses have the wrong people in the wrong seats, or they are holding on to the wrong people that have been with them, you know, from in the past. and so. Recognizing the need for help when it's almost always too late and the damage is done is the first thing, right? You've gotta recognize the need, that you need some help. What the help is depends on who you are. Some, you know, some CEOs, some business owners are more into finance, some are more into sales, some are more into creative. Like there's very different people you gotta find. You know, the yin to yang, you have to find the people that will help you complete what you don't have and not necessarily what you don't have, also what you don't like to do, right? Yeah. I mean, we're running businesses, yes, primarily to make money, but also to have fun. At least I am right. We, we wanna enjoy what we do. We spend so much time, in our lives doing work. And so you wanna do something that you like doing, find out who those people are that you're gonna need in order to allow you to do that. The other thing is not being able to define what they need, right. Bringing in the wrong people because they don't know to define what's really missing. And that again comes to, you know, from a level of experience and how many times you've seen this before and hiring someone with, you know, 5 to 10 years of experience is not the same as hiring someone with 30 years ex experience and hiring someone that spent 30 years in. You know, Sony or Google or something huge is not the same as hiring someone that has been through 50 startups. So there's a very big difference in the people that you're gonna bring. And there's, it's not the same. Every business is different, and you really have to define and understand what it is that you need before you bring it on board.

Isar Meitis: 14:41

Let me ask you the how, the, how question. So I, I think what you said is so, so, so important, right? Is knowing what people you need in order. Then look through these kind of people and find the one that's the best fit. How do I know? Like I said, it's it's experience. So if you experience, awesome, but if you're not, I'm like, okay, this is a great advice time. Am I gonna capitalize on that advice?

Adi Vaxman: 15:03

So that actually brings me to my point number three, which I will get to in a minute regarding, you know, bringing in like how to recruit people from outside of your network, how to know, but still, you know, I'm still staying on point number two, which is kind of the wrong people in the wrong seats. And I wanna say that two more areas that I've been. You know, experiencing with a lot of our clients is that one, they bring in the wrong people because they can't afford the right people and they compromise. And that's very common again, which is why fractional leadership is such an amazing solution in my opinion. and the last one, which has, is probably one of the most difficult ones for business owners. To handle is holding on to people that got you this far and putting them in seats that are way too big for them and they can't fill and setting them and your business up to fill, because you can't let them go or you can't keep them in a place where they're productive and their, their ego doesn't let them stay there and bring somebody above them. And those almost always end. Damage and separation. and it's sad, but unfortunately it's one of the most common things that we see. so now going on to the third point, in my four aspect list is recruiting people from outside of your network. Right? At some point in your growth, you can't. Bring on people that you know anymore because you don't know the right people. or you don't know how to identify the right people, right? And so it's really difficult to let go and entrust your business at the hands of someone you don't know. that's, that's a huge trust issue for growing businesses. the second thing is how to define the needs of the business. So before you define what person you need, you need to define what it is that you need, and you don't always know. And then how to define the candidate, right? Most people. Recruit based on experience, knowledge. What have you done before? What do you know? Where did you go to school? What did you learn? Very few people take into, you know, consideration, personality, culture, and this yin-yang thing that I mentioned before. If that person is going to be your partner, depending on what level and what kind of person. It's almost like a marriage. You've gotta get along with that person. You've gotta get along with'em on many different levels. It's not just what they know and what they've done before. And a lot of people just overlook that, whether they're bringing in junior people or very senior people, they just overlook that. They look at. Did they come from my industry? And I want to tell you, it doesn't always matter. In most cases, it does not matter if they have the right experience. Your industry doesn't matter if they have the right personality. They will learn your industry. if they fit your culture, they'll be a good partner to you. Another thing is one,

Isar Meitis: 17:44

I'll, I'll say one thing related to the last point you said, because it's again, from a very personal experience. So I work for a very large travel company. We grew stupidly fast and we just couldn't hire people fast enough. And the first thing that you do is you go and steal people from the competition, right? So you're now growing faster, you have more cash, you can get the talent from the other guys who are not moving as fast and cannot offer the same terms as. And we hired people across the ranks, like from front people all the way to, to, to see sweet people. Like literally all across. And I'm generalizing it, but on a general term, it failed and it failed and it's extremely good people, very, very different culture, very engraved in a different way of doing things. And it just didn't work because there was not a fit and they couldn't adjust and they were trying to do things the way they were used to doing it. What we did, we started our own academy. Now that's obviously not for every company. It required a huge financial investment, but we literally started an academy that was a full quarter, including accommodation, food, everything. Just come and spend a quarter with us and we took people that were, you know, MBA grads from all over the world, in the right markets that we needed. Groom them to our culture and the way of doing things, and it was a huge success. So obviously not any, every company has the luxury of doing what I said, but I think that it highlights the point of having people who are skilled and motivated to do the kind of work you want them to do with the red culture has a much higher chances of success than people with huge years of experience in your industry of doing things potentially differently than the way you're.

Adi Vaxman: 19:30

So I wanna say something about that, being stuck, and that goes back to mindset. and I've seen this a lot. it's something that I really personally believe in. We hire in our company, a lot of more junior people and a lot of people from completely irrelevant fields whatsoever. You know, teachers and you name it, really irrelevant fields. And we do exactly the same. We teach them and we groom them because doing what we do requires. Mindset, bandwidth of not holding on to this is how this needs to be done. and there are things that we know, major principles that we already know, right? You know, about how companies grow and what the kind of things that need to be done, but, Every company's different and every company will implement in a different way. And every company company needs a different solution that will work for what that company needs to achieve. And so you can't be stuck in that. I've been doing this for 30 years, 50 years, a hundred years, and this is how we do this. The one of the things that I really can't stand to hear is, this is how we do it. Forget it. That's not how you do it. You do it according to what you, how you need it to get done, and we reinvent that every single time. Otherwise it just doesn't work. So I really do believe in that process.

Isar Meitis: 20:44

Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's the difference between managing based on what happened in what happened in the past versus managing based on what you want that would happen in the future.

Adi Vaxman: 20:52

That's correct, yeah. So yes, so I totally, totally agree with that. but. You know, and it's a little bit different from, for the, like more like higher level C level, your leadership team and your more junior roles. but the principles are very similar. You have to start with, Someone that can really show you the ropes and help teach you how to do these things. And if you're hiring more junior people, or if you're hiring at all, you have to attract the right people and attracting the right people. And hiring and recruiting in general is marketing. Just like marketing your product, it's exactly the same thing. You have to define what your target audience is. You have to define the personalities, the persona, just like, like we do in marketing, you have to. advertise and market it to the right crowds. You have to use keywords. You have to, you know, a job description is not just a list of things that somebody needs to do. It's a marketing, you know, fishing hook. it's a fishing rod, and you need to, you need to bring the right people into the net and then, You're at a better place. And after that you need to figure out how to screen them, how to interview them, how to understand who they are truly, and not stay with that, you know, list of questions. Oh, did you do this? Do you know Salesforce? Oh, great. You know, Salesforce, who cares if they know Salesforce? So, the whole process from start to finish, from the definition, from the understanding of what it is that you need and writing it down and understanding how it complements your, the abilities that you already have in your organization, and then creating that job description or, you know, the persona, the profile of the person, and then finding those people and then bringing them on board and. Onboarding them and all of that. So that is another PR piece, very major piece that we see a lot of organizations fail

Isar Meitis: 22:41

awesome. So we talked about these three things. You said they're fourth. What's the fourth thing?

Adi Vaxman: 22:46

the fourth thing is information systems. Systems in general, technology, information systems, not knowing how to select, evaluate, implement, and use information systems to drive efficiency in your organization. We see businesses from kind of two very opposite. Angles, right? We see those with no systems at all that do everything. Like we are st still in like 1973. everything paper, huge filing cabinets, best case scenario, million documents in Excels and that's like huge automation for them. and we see businesses with. Way too many systems, disparage systems, disconnected systems that do not speak to each other, and they really can't find anything in those systems. So from both of these angles, there is, there's something to be said about systems and the way that we use systems to make our business more organized, more efficient, our is more repeatable. and of course process, by the way, and I, it's not one of my four. Things on my list because I think process is an overarching issue for every one of these things on the list, right? So I can make it a separate thing, but I think process is like a much bigger thing that is required in every one of those areas. So I'm not kind of, Disregarding it. but it could be a whole podcast ca cast all by itself.

Isar Meitis: 24:07

for sure. I, I, I wanna say something about the, the it side of things, and I agree with you a hundred percent and I think it's gonna become more and more dramatic now that we're walking, somewhat blindfold into the AI era and the amount of AI driven tools that drive efficiencies through the roof are. Literally dozens of tools coming out every single day. Yep. And all the big tools that we know, you know, the Salesforce, the Microsoft Office of the Worlds are gonna have AI capabilities built into them. And the companies who will know how to implement that will skyrocket. And the companies who won't will crumble. There's no option C. Absolutely. And I think the impact of having or not having a solid tech stack in your company, What's really important now, it will become really a one or zero game in the very, very near future. You will either have a solid tech stack or your business will not be able to compete. I totally cease to exist.

Adi Vaxman: 25:12

I totally agree. Let me ask you this. How many AI tools have you used in the past 24?

Isar Meitis: 25:18

I don't think I'm a good example, but probably 15

Adi Vaxman: 25:22

ish. So, yeah, so you know, I'm, I'm around the 15 to 20 myself, so like I totally agree. This is one of the things that we're focused on more these days is implementing AI in our. Day-to-day workflow. I just created an explainer video for my company using an AI tool. there's like, these things are very ingrained in what we do, but AI is not just it, it's a good example because it happened really fast. Or for those who haven't been following, it happened really fast. And the number of tools, that. Popped up in a very short amount of time is very overwhelming, but there is an overwhelming supply of systems in general, out there for every niche, for every area, of the business that can be very daunting to try to identify what you need, how to evaluate it, how to select it, how much does it cost, how to, how to implement, how do you use it. and we see a lot of cases. One analysis paralysis, right? Where we have people that are overly thinking and overthinking, overly evaluating, comparing until to the N degree and not making a choice. And by that, they're stopping themselves from moving forward. And in a lot of cases, this choice is even as basic as. Selecting an email and file sharing system, and there are really just two major ones in the market. Either one that you're gonna choose is gonna be fine, so they all have their, you know, benefits and advantages and disadvantages, but at the end of the day, You need to make a decision, right? You need to start somewhere. And so those things are very, very critical. We see companies operate for years without selecting a basic, you know, basic tech stack, basic tools, and we do digital transformation on a regular basis. One of the things that we, you know, we start with when we come into a new company is trying to understand what are the problems that they really need to solve and how to prioritize them in terms of what system to. To implement. And some of these systems are, are very big, you know, like big E R P systems, big CRMs that cost tens of thousands of dollars a year and depending on the size of the company, and those decisions do require a little bit more thinking, a little bit more analysis. But some of these other decisions, they're easy to move on from. So you start with identifying your problems that you need to solve, prioritize these problems and start by selecting, you know, there's always. The top five in the market. Look at three, look at three, see what you feel. What feels better. And again, this is very simplistic and we could do analysis that are much, much more in depth than this, but you have to start something. Understanding the different buckets of information systems that are out there, right? The accounting, your CRMs, your marketing automations, your task and workflow management, your project management, email and file management, any communication, instant messaging, video conferencing like Zoom, HR systems, applicant tracking systems, eh, r and EMRs. In the case of, you know, we work with a lot of medical practices, scheduling, calendaring, mailing list management, you know, all of these different things. You have to understand what the buckets. First, what these big buckets, like there are tools for everything, but what is it that you do? What's really important to you? And then. How do you value it? How do you assess what, what questions do you ask in order to know what's right for you? How do you, and at the end of the day, and you and I talked about this in our call before, and I, I, you really need to repeat that because I think it's brilliant how to connect those systems together so that you can get insights and analytics that are necessary for you to manage your business. Because at the end of the day, that is the purpose. It's also to simplify your process, to make it more repeatable, to make it easier for people to, you know, to use your, your systems, whether internally or outside. But still, if those systems are each of them operating at a silo and they're not talking to each other, then you are not getting the benefit that you really need to get from them. And I want you to repeat what you said to me about Zapier the other day.

Isar Meitis: 29:19

Ah, I, I basically said that exact year dies. I think, well, the world will come to an end, or at least the business world the way I know it, with automations that can connect different systems together. And, and I really believe that, and I think everything you're saying is invaluable, right? It's, it's, and at the end of the day, literally most of the things you said other than the mindset, Has to do with solid business strategy. You need to know where you're going. You need to define a clear culture. You need to define targets. You need to define KPIs. And then all these things that you just said are means to those ends that are defined by, by those things. And I think a lot of companies miss that step and hence why they miss all the other things, that you talked about that are all are really critical. Adi, this was fantastic. I think it's a great overview. I think it comes from a place of a lot of hands-on real life knowledge. If people wanna follow you more, work with you know about you, connect with you, what's the best way to do that?

Adi Vaxman: 30:19

I. So our website is shiba consulting.com. S H E B a, consulting.com. I'm on LinkedIn. company's on LinkedIn on Facebook. We have chat on the website. We have every possible communication tool, including AI tools implemented in our systems. love to help, any business owners. I do wanna mention one thing you've talked about. In general, making plans and setting goals, and I absolutely agree with that. But if there's one thing that the last three years taught us is that we need to remain flexible and we have to remain agile. And we made the plans and we set the goals, and those things change and plans sometimes don't work out the way that we plan them. And we need to remember to be flexible and to be dynamic and to change those plans and those goals. As a reaction to what's happening in the market and to be able to, you know, kind of look at what's happening around us. It's just like a lot of these people that are now kind of bearing their head in the sand about ai. And you can't because you're gonna disappear and you can be afraid of it. And I think there's good reason to be, but it still doesn't mean that you can ignore the fact that it's there because you won't have a business just like the people that ignored Covid. Yeah. And. So those who were quick to react were quick to, you know, adapt. That's awesome. My last piece of advice, No,

Isar Meitis: 31:44

I agree. I think it's awesome advice. I think, flexibility and and agility are maybe the two most important things businesses can have moving forward just because of the rate of change. Idi, this was really, really awesome. I really appreciate your time. I really appreciate your sharing your knowledge. Thank you for coming on the show. Thank

Adi Vaxman: 32:01

you so much for having me. It was great. Love your podcast.