185 | How to Stand Out in a Commoditized Industry With Peter Mann, CEO of Oransi

Are you tired of blending in with the competition? Want to know how to stand out and succeed in a commoditized industry?

In this episode, we dive deep into the world of innovation and marketing with Peter Mann, Founder and CEO at Oransi, who shares his unique approach to thriving in a crowded market. Discover the secrets to connecting with customers on an emotional level, outsmarting your competition, and disrupting a commoditized industry.

🎯 Topics We Discussed:

🚀 The importance of understanding customer needs and segmentation
🧠 Thinking outside the box and exploring unconventional strategies
💡 Connecting with customers on an emotional level and creating word of mouth through third parties
🌟 Leveraging influential figures in your industry for marketing and endorsement
🌊 Embracing continuous improvement and the realities of product development

👤 About Peter Mann:
Peter is an innovative entrepreneur, Founder and CEO at Oransi, with a passion for disrupting commoditized industries. He has successfully navigated the challenges of launching and growing a business in a competitive market, and he's here to share his wealth of knowledge with you. Connect with Peter on LinkedIn.

Hi, It's Isar the host of the Business Growth Accelerator Podcast
I am passionate about growing businesses and helping CEOs, business leaders, and entrepreneurs become more successful. I am also passionate about relationship building, community creation for businesses, and value creation through content.
I would love it if you connect with me on LinkedIn. Drop me a DM, and LMK you listened to the podcast, what you think and what topics you would like me to cover 🙏

Transcript

Isar Meitis: 0:00

hello, and welcome to the Business Growth Accelerator. This is Isar Mattis, your host, and I have a very special guest and topic for you today. Technology has been advancing a lot and the global economy enables. Basically anybody who wants to find cheap flavor services and product, manufacturing overseas, which makes almost anything you can think of become a commodity either very quickly or eventually. So if you are in a business today, whether you are selling products or services, There's a very, very high likelihood you're in a somewhat commoditized market, and if you're not, it probably will be. Especially now with the impacts of the incredible AI capabilities that are available to basically everyone today. When before it was available, to Google and Amazon, The problem when you're in a commoditized market is figuring out how do you differentiate yourself? How do you rise above the noise? How do you get more market share and connect and have more customers for a longer period of time compared to your competition? And sometimes you have to do things that are very, quote unquote trivial, but you need to know what they are. And sometimes it sounds counterintuitive like reshoring manufacturing from cheap places like China back to the us which like, okay, how does that make any sense? Everything's gonna be more expensive. These are exactly the topics we're gonna discuss today, which I find fascinating and I think you will find it fascinating as well. And we're gonna have that conversation with Peter Mann. Peter is a successful entrepreneurhe already started and sold one company. He's currently the c e o and the founder of Orci, and he's revolutionizing a highly commoditized industry of home and office air purifiers. And he's an expert on how to differentiate yourself in these kind of scenarios. And again, since I think this is now a global problem, I'm really excited to have as a guest today,​Before we jump into today's episode, there's something I want to share with you about two weeks ago, I've launched another podcast. The podcast is called Leveraging AI And if you like this podcast, you're gonna love leveraging AI because it's a very similar approach. I interview really smart people from the AI world practitioners and experts who share how to leverage AI in order to grow your business and advance your career. So pull up your phone right now, whatever platform you are using in order to listen to this podcast. Search for leveraging ai, check it out. I think you'll find it fascinating. There's already nine episodes in there, including a really fascinating interview with ChatGPT as the guest. It's unique and different and fun and interesting, and we talk about the impact of AI technology on businesses and society as a whole. So look for leveraging ai. And if you enjoy it, subscribe to it and also write me a note on LinkedIn and let me know what you think. And now to the episode with Peter Mann. peter, welcome to the

Peter Mann: 3:56

Business Growth Accelerator. Yeah. Thank you so much. Excited to be here. Peter.

Isar Meitis: 4:00

Let's start with when did it hit you? And I dunno if it was day one or somewhere in your management within that industry that you understood that, oh my God, like what I do? There's so many companies who can do the same exact thing. They can manufacture it in the same exact factories in China and make basically any claims they want on it to say that it's betters one way or another. When did it hit you, and what were your mindset or your thoughts as that thought evolved

Peter Mann: 4:31

in your head? Yeah, I would say, our category. Before Covid, it really wasn't that crowded of a space and there was not a lot of brands, but when Covid hit the air Pur farm market just exploded and just dozens and dozens of brands entered the space to where it became oversaturated. And you get to a point where there's really marginal differentiation between products if you're calling a spade, it's, and being truthful with yourself. It's what it is. And, it's interesting now, is that, we're, really on the other side of Covid. The market is back closer to where it was pre covid, but now we just have so many competitors and it's, there's so much noise. And the reality is the category has really become a commodity if we're being honest with ourselves. And it's like how do you compete in that space? Because it really just, in a matter of two or three years, this whole industry market have just turned up, turned upside. And it's a challenge, but it's, it's also an opportunity, to see enough. Yeah.

Isar Meitis: 5:33

I think what you're describing is like the perfect worse storm right there, there was a huge demand, which led to huge growth in supply. Yeah. And then the demand died back down, but you still have all the suppliers who got into the space, or at least most of them. So what are the things that you really started doing to change the situation, to say, okay, how do I take my business and make it something different that will stand out? Yeah, it's two, two things. At high level, it's, it's, lowering cost, because it's in a commoditized world. if your costs aren't in line with where they need to be, you're gonna go outta business and you have to connect with the customer. and, stand out. Nike makes shoes in the same factory as other brands that, but they have such a strong brand and such a strong connection and, and they've leveraged that in a very commoditized, industry. And so we're having to do the same thing. And, in reshoring manufacturing, we've put so much development into our product that we've figured out how to take cost out and have a better story. And so that's what I'm really excited about.

Peter Mann: 6:41

There's, so

Isar Meitis: 6:42

I find this fascinating on so many different levels and we'll start diving into them one by one. I think I wanna start with really what something you told me, which I agree with you a hundred percent when we did the pre-call for this, which is understanding what the clients are actually looking for. Because that's where it all starts, right? You, when you wanna differentiate, you better differentiate in a way that actually people would care about because they could say, oh, we are gonna make our products pink and really big. That's gonna be different, but maybe it's not gonna work to your benefit. How do you figure it out? How do you really understand, like truly understand what will make a difference for the client who're

Peter Mann: 7:21

trying to serve? Yeah, so the way. we're wired or oriented is we're very data driven and we just let the numbers do the talking. it's, we could think something, but if the data in the, in the market intelligence tells you something different, you really can't ignore that. And we look at what's selling in the marketplace, what are those features? What are the price points? What, why is someone buying this? and we could have an opinion on that product, but it really doesn't matter if that's really. what the customers want. And there's tools. I don't know. I don't have any, we use Jungle Scout and there's a number of other tools. So you can go into Amazon and really get pretty, pretty accurate, sales data on any product. and Amazon's such a huge marketplace. it's a good. it's a good way to get a sense for what's selling and what's not selling and what the price points are and what the features are. and that's just an initial data point. And then two is we have, a team of customer service folks that are talking with customers every day and, getting the pulse of the customer and, feeding that back to us. And so it's the human interactions it. it's raw data. It's looking at reviews and what people are saying, and it's not, the five star reviews. It's what are the three or four star reviews? What are they critical of? And is there an opportunity to do something about that?

Isar Meitis: 8:40

I love that. So if I put that into two big buckets, one is. Quantitative data, which you're collecting both from yourself and from your competition through technology tools. Which then you can aggregate and analyze in different ways. And the other thing is really qualitative, human relation kind of data. Whether it's directly talking to your customers or potential customers, as well as looking at what people writing in reviews that we don't like this or this is not working, or this is why, we returned it or whatever. I think this is brilliant. I wanna add, again, going back to the AI tools that are out there today. One of the biggest problems until very recently with qualitative data was how do you make sense of it? Like you can collect qualitative data, but it's just a lot of raw data that was impossible to do unless you had a few people literally reading messages and trying to analyze. And now with AI tools, There are incredible tools out there that you can just plug into Google Sheets that can give you the sentiment of different things and put them into categories and buckets and score them based on whatever definitions you define with zero cost. And so our ability to analyze large numbers of qualitative data has became incredible and accessible that they were not before. Okay, so now you have this. What did you do then? Okay, now you understand what the clients are looking for as quote unquote differentiators or what they care about. One of the things you already said, they want a good price. Yeah. which I assume became very obvious from looking at the data. What other things you found that maybe surprised you or things that you learned that you should focus on that you did not know before? Looking at the data.

Peter Mann: 10:28

Yeah, like for air purifiers, I would say they care about, just things like noise level and the look at the look and feel of the product, how simple it is to use, just the functionality. It really depends upon just different profiles of customers. And that's another thing you look at, like if you're senior citizen and you maybe, you want something that's light simple to use. You don't wanna mess with apps, you just wanna just set it and forget it and be done with it. And we also sell the businesses and you're a dentist office. You may not have floor space and you need to have a way of like, where can I put this so it, it does the job, but doesn't take up my precious floor space. It's like there's very little of it. And so it's really looking at just demographics and psychographics and profiles for customers and really understand who's buying from you. And then, market the product in a way that connects with that customer and then build features, into a product or even de feature a product. If that's what it takes to get down to the right cost. And that's more of the direction we've gone is really doing everything we can into everything goes into the performance of the product. And anything that doesn't drive performance, we're not even gonna spend a penny on because we need, the cost is so

Isar Meitis: 11:41

critical. Okay, so again, if I broaden the definitions that you're saying, a, categorize your clients into the different buckets that you think you can compete in those specific markets. Understand their very specific needs and build your products aligned to those needs. And like you're saying, in many cases, and in the software industry, it's way more common than manufacturing products. You create a lot of bells and whistles because it's a lot easier and cheaper than when you have to manufacture. That your clients may don't even care about. Just your product team thought it's a good idea, or somebody in the business thought it should be a part of the plan or whatever, and then it doesn't really serve. The real needs of the real clients. It costs you more money to develop, maintain service, and so on. And so the combination of the understanding of the specific needs and doing focusing on those core things in your products is your key to success. I wanna touch on the reassuring aspect of it, because I find this very interesting. On one hand you're saying, I want to cut cost On the other thing you're saying, oh, I'm gonna fat manufacture in here in the US where rent cost me. A thousand x more it is than a factory in China. Labor cost me a thousand x more than factory in China. Supply of goods probably still more expensive than getting it in China because they're probably buying much bigger quantities. So how are you able to reshore manufacturing? Wow. Driving the

Peter Mann: 13:06

cost down. Yeah, so it's, what's interesting is we bought a large manufacturing facility. It's, we have 156,000 square feet. Wow. And we're, we, right now, we're unlike 32 people, so we're not utilizing a lot of this space. And so with all our excess capacity we're, offering three pl warehousing fulfillment services, in, in just doing that, it, it pays for our. And so it's okay, so we, it's not free, but doesn't really cost us anything and we're building an asset, which is pretty exciting.

Isar Meitis: 13:39

And then, and it's an asset you can depreciate. So now on the books, it looks like there's a lot of other benefits to doing that.

Peter Mann: 13:45

Yeah. And so that works out really well cuz you know, there's a, in general, a shortage of warehouse space, at least in, we're in Virginia in our part of the world. and so it's working out really well. We're getting people all the time, looking to, for us to store product for them or do fulfillment. and There's that, we've also really put a focus on like, how do we design the products? How do we take cost out, and how do we manufacture it here? And we've figured out that labor is really the variable to cost. if you buy a component or if you buy resin or plastics or. it doesn't cost. the cost is pretty similar here versus in China, it's the labor is the difference. And, the way that the Chinese make physical products, at least within our category, is they wanna spend as little as possible upfront in the tooling and the development. And so they have a lot of simple parts that requires 30, 40, 50 people on an assembly line to put together. And you can't take all those parts and make it here and expect to be cost competitive with a Chinese factory, you have to find a different way. And so ours is just simply taking labor out by reducing the part count and making it assembled just so much more simply. And that's why it's taken us two plus years to really get to the point of getting the product, fully developed and ready to launch is just working all those details out because it is a lot more upfront expense, but then, longer term your variable costs are lower. If you can take something that's a hundred parts and make it 35 parts it's you've just taken labor out and can be a lot more efficient. And so we're also moving from. If you source from China, you're buying finished goods and you have to pay for the product, you have to ship it over here. There's all that, cost and inventory, whereas we're just buying, raw materials, which are much lower cost, and you can do more just in time delivery, so you get weekly shipments and whatnot. And so it's like your capital is actually a lot less in an ongoing basis. And so that's really a point of differentiation for us. We can be a lot more flexible and not be a bank or have to incur, inventory costs and 90 day lead times and, all the things that go on with, sourcing from China. So I think that's really gonna be a competitive advantage for.

Isar Meitis: 16:06

I think it's brilliant. I wanna touch on a few aspects here again, on a broader sense from the example you gave. First of all, there's a company here in Florida, you and I talked about that, that just launched a 3D printed rocket to space and they 3D printed 90 something percent of the parts of the rocket. And their biggest savings is exactly because of what you said. They're full launch, like the full operation of that one launch cost them$12 million, which in space launch numbers is practically free. And so the biggest differentiator is the number of parts they have. They have less than 1% parts than any other space create like rocket manufacturing company. And that saves a huge amount of tooling and then space and then labor, and then testing and then quality control that everything is assembled to get, like, all of these things go away and you've basically done the same thing into, in a different industry. And I think the interesting thing about reassuring that you're bringing as a very interesting idea is thinking out of the box. Because, and it's the same everywhere you look at a software company, most software companies work the same way with the same tools, with the same infrastructure, with the same cloud services, with a, and if you're saying, okay, do I need to do everything like everybody else is doing just because that's the way everybody else is doing it? And the answer sometimes is yes. Sometimes you don't have a. But sometimes you may take something that is, this is the common way things are done, and do it completely differently and be able to, like you're saying, a, be more innovative and provide better solutions for my specific target clients. But b, do it much cheaper, much shorter, lead times which keeps happy customers and so on. I think it's absolutely brilliant. How do you use. These two things that we talked about, meaning your understanding of the client's needs together with the fact that you're building stuff now in the us in your marketing and the way you sell

Peter Mann: 18:11

the product. Yeah. so part of marketing I think is building marketing into the product. That's like a Seth Godin, it has a whole book I think called, this is Marketing which I would recommend, anyone that debt markets a product, get it. It's what I've learned is if you have an average met too product, you're gonna spend so much in advertising, to sell that. Whereas if you can generate word of mouth, it's, I don't know, they say 10 times more effective than any other form of advertising. And it's Build marketing to your product, make it remarkable that make people, or let people talk about it and do the marketing for you. And so that's, and it takes a lot of thought to get to that. And it's a mind shift versus just, having a, if you have an engineering focus where it's we're just gonna build the best product out there, It has to connect with the customer and you have to build it. So somebody, like the AI stuff we were talking about, it's that thing just feeds itself, right? Because it's so cool and it's new and who knows what you can do with it next. And people are, I've, some of them most popular posts on LinkedIn are like, oh, did you know you could, this is how you use the open AI and this is how you ask a question. Or this is you don't use it like Google actually like framed the situation and then people talk about that, and for me it's also the psychology of it is why do people talk about things and, how do things spread? And it's, there's like a psychology aspect to it as well. And I think to me, that's just human behavior is fascinating. And so I think it goes back to that and marketing is really, my view just connecting with the customer and using their language and in, in a way that, gets them excited emotionally to where they'll not just buy it, but talk about it.

Isar Meitis: 19:55

So let's dive to the how of what you just said, because I agree with you a hundred percent. If people will share that they're using your product and that they're happy with it because you built an awesome product. Then you had an amazing example with Dr. Fosse, using your stuff, and I'll let you yeah. Talk about this, but how do you get people to talk about your product? A and again, especially you're the perfect example, right? Because if I'm selling a cool widget or a fun car or a right exciting adventure that obviously people are gonna talk about, but you're selling an air pur fire, right? So how do you get, what steps do you take? What measures do you put in place in order to get your customers to actually share that they're enjoying this and this has changed their lives one

Peter Mann: 20:38

way or another? Yeah, I mean it's, I don't know, marketing is a bit frustrating too, like accounting people because it's like an art and a science and it's not just all science and, you can see in your metrics in terms of, basic return on ads spend or, there's different metrics you can see, you can look at. Google search trends and see what you know. Is your brand being searched more than it has been? Is it growing? And, there's some qualitative measures you could, you can take to get the pulse on where your brand is. You can see sales. I think sales is the ultimate indicator. You can look at, on Amazon how you're selling versus your competition. And but how do you get there? Is that's kind that's the trick. It's really understanding your product, your category, your customer. I don't know of a specific formula that you go off of, but I think about also, why do people buy things And, it's often status or affiliation, right? And like with what we're doing is, people buy, I'll just say Dyson because Dyson's really strong brand, and it's oh, I'm cool. I have a Dyson, or I have a Tesla, because it's the first big brand of electric cars. And, you can start questioning them a little bit, but it, it's not, it's more of a emotional decision. That someone that buys that. So I think the question is, how do you make it emotional for someone? Which is a lot to unpack, I think, in that question. And it's the story. People connect on stories. People I think wanna buy from people that they like or that they associate with, or that share their interests and. I think it's all about making connections and being a human being to, to other folks.

Isar Meitis: 22:24

Yeah. And your story started like that, right? That's why you started the business.

Peter Mann: 22:28

Yeah, I started cuz my son was asthmatic and was really looking for a healthy way to help with his condition, which was to me pretty traumatic. And so it kind of, you know, left a mark on me to help him as well as anyone else in that condition.

Isar Meitis: 22:44

Yeah, I think I, I think at the end of the day, going back to what you said about emotions and selling through emotion, It's there's a really famous article, I don't remember who wrote it, but he talks about different ads and how they connect with people. And he shows different ads for grills, which is again, it's a commodity. I can buy a grill from anybody, and some companies are selling the grill or selling the$150 discount. They're giving this whatever season it is and so on. And some companies sell the barbecue party. They're not trying to sell the grill. They're saying, look at how cool you're going to be with your buddies. Yeah. With beers in their hands and hanging out by the pool and watching the football game. And that's what people really connect with. And you are doing the same thing. You're basically saying, I'm not selling you this. Really cool box with fancy lights in an olive button. I'm selling you a better quality of life. I'm selling you and I'm sure I dunno if you're doing this yet, but I assume you're using the made in the USA part of this as well,

Peter Mann: 23:45

right? Yeah. And I think it goes back to even like Steve Jobs, you know, when he came out with the Mac, I don't know if you've seen the videos from, I think the eighties. It's like people don't buy off of speeds and feeds like that doesn't get specifications that it's like the developer of the product may get super excited about some aspect of it, but I think that's a trap and it doesn't connect emotionally. And even Simon Sinek, when he said people don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it. And I think it, and it's also, I would add how it makes someone feel, and that's like when you were talking about the barbecue, it's yeah, I'm the hero. You know, it's like what does it do for me? That's what cust everybody. It doesn't really care about you or your product, it's what does it do for me? Like, why should I get excited about this? And why should I talk about this? And I think it's answering those questions, is really what differentiates, a product especially in a commoditized category.

Isar Meitis: 24:41

Do you promote referrals somehow? Meaning do you ask your clients to send it to their friends or give them discounts codes? I'm just wondering from a very technical, practical perspective, what steps can a company in a commoditized industry take in order to enjoy the fact that their clients are happy with their product or

Peter Mann: 25:02

service? Yeah, we have like a, I guess it's an affiliate type program where it's like, Give 20, get 20. Whereas a friend buys something, they get$20 off and you get$20 off. that's been I would say, I'm being honest, there's a effectiveness, but you know, I think it's, I think the, a newer thing that's come about recently is more like user generated content and, letting people show what they're doing and creating contests or programs or ways to, you know, celebrate, you know, how they're using your product or what it's done for them. I think that's the direction we're going and, I've seen it with other products, where they've done that really well.

Isar Meitis: 25:44

I agree a hundred percent. I especially, again, stuff like, like the stuff you're selling that really can impact people's lives and if you find a way to make it a competition or give them some kind of incentive to share their journey and share their results, yeah, that probably works better than anything else because it's authentic, it's real people, it doesn't come from the company, it doesn't seem at least biased because, okay, here's me turning this thing on and here's what happened three weeks later. And so I agree with you a hundred percent. The other aspect of it is obviously, going to some bigger authoritative figures and doing marketing through, leveraging those kind of people that's been around for a while and it's gaining a lot of traction now, including in fields that it wasn't before. it started probably with teenage goods. Of buy the Nike shoes or buy this perfume or buy this set of underwear. And I think now it's becoming a very valid path for a lot of other businesses with quote unquote authority figures in whatever field, industry, niche, et cetera. just because these people already have a following and they've already acquired people's. And using these kind of channels could definitely work for products like

Peter Mann: 27:04

yours. Yeah, I agree. I mean, people, I, third party endorsements is a huge one because it's not you saying it, it's somebody that's respected, that's an authority person that carries weight and it's if they're saying it, then it must be true. And there's, I guess it's natural for there to be skepticism in claims, which because people make some crazy claims. That's why there's like laws or FTC rules around things. But, I think a really strong third party endorsement is, at least in our category, very influential. There's influencers who do things and I think it, it's relevant to the effectiveness is too relevant to what the category is, right? If it's like a fashion type of product, you could have a celebrity wearing it that's super influential. But if you have like our product, which we deem as more of a health type product, having somebody that's a health expert that more or less endorses it or an organization. That gives it stamp of approval is really the most in influential. So I think it's relevant to what the product and category is and the use of it.

Isar Meitis: 28:11

No, I agree a hundred percent. So if I summarize the marketing part, it's about connect with emotion, tell a story, find, get as many third party either individuals or influencers, word of mouth going by promoting it one way or another.

Peter Mann: 28:31

yeah. what's I've always find interesting is people buy thing on, on emotion and then they justify it rationally. It's like I went and bought this handbag and I got really excited about it, and then when you say, why did you buy it? Then you start rattling off the list of like rational things. But that really is not why you bought it. You bought it because you got exci. It made you feel good. Yeah.

Isar Meitis: 28:51

Yeah. And I think there are fields where it's easy to do right? Where, like I said, it's something I wear and it makes me feel good or it's something related to a sport I'm doing. I think it's a lot harder to do with the world you are in. Okay. I'm selling an air purifier. Yeah. And I think it's appliance. You can make that connection. If you can make that transition and make people feel good about. This thing because it's gonna help their kids, because it's gonna help them, because it's gonna make them sneeze less or live longer, or sleep better or whatever. Again, connect to something that is a tangible benefit. then again, you're selling that, you're selling better sleep. You're selling not sneezing. You're selling a healthy kid. You're not selling this device that I need to press on and makes a little bit of noise.

Peter Mann: 29:35

Agree. And, it could be selling American values like in terms of like how we make it and sustainability and, you know, environmental practices that are at a certain level. And I don't really, I mean that's gonna be interesting for us going forward, how that plays out. But I do know that Reuters and consumer reports both did surveys of American consumers and 70 to 80% prefer American made products, but very few would pay any kind of premium or even a five or 10% premium. And so it's that's why cost is so important. It's such a critical part of our marketing. Yeah. and

Isar Meitis: 30:13

I think what you're saying is very interesting. If you find a way to make it in the US while keeping the prices competitive then you have a statement you can use and if not, you can use it, but it's probably not gonna help you very much because people won't pay the difference.

Peter Mann: 30:26

Exactly. Yeah. I worked with a contract manufacturer in the northeast. Probably eight or 10 years ago, and we developed some products, but the costs were so high and people really wanted their products sold well, but it would've done so much better in the common feedback. Was it just, it's too expensive. And so it's like, all right, so we're gonna find a way, find a way to solve that one.

Isar Meitis: 30:50

Peter, Let's connect kind of all the dots together. I want to do a quick summary and then if you have any final thoughts. One you said is understanding the customer needs, segmenting them, understanding what things they need exactly, and then delivering that to them, which you define as marketing within the product, right? It's if your product does exactly what they want, it's a lot easier to sell to them. The other thing that we talked about is how to be innovative and. And sometimes what would seem not logical, like reassuring and bringing stuff here, but thinking out of the box. And then we talked about on the marketing and sales side, how to connect with people on the emotional level, how to create word of mouth by third parties that are independent. Preferably some influential, person in the field. Anything else you wanna add to the stuff that you're doing today that is unique that I really think it is unique. I think what you're doing is very interesting and I think it has a lot of great business know-how that people should try to think that way in order to move their businesses in that

Peter Mann: 31:52

direction. Yeah, I think it's really looking at the full picture, you know? For us it's sourcing. If you source from China, there's this time involved and there's costs and there's ocean shipping and, that's just assumed to be a given in the course of buying and selling products. But does it have to be? I don't think so. It should be, everything should be on the table. You should really look at every item and is there a way to improve it or do it differently. And have a mindset of continuous improvement and not that this is the way we've always done it, but how can eliminate certain things. Cuz there's so much competition and it's really it's challenging I think with so many competitors and it's, but it's a great opportunity because, not everyone is willing to do that. But the other thing I would add is everything takes longer and costs more than you would think. And you have to go into it with knowing that. We thought, maybe a year or so, we developed this product and now we're a little over two years and we're just getting ready to launch it. And it's like, but the time was worth it because we made improvements and we really are like checking all the boxes and we're doing it right. And you always want to do things faster. It's just sometimes there's limitations there. You come across things that you didn't know you didn't know. And it's, to me that's kind of part of the fun, but it's also just getting clear that it will cost more and it will take longer and just know that going.

Isar Meitis: 33:23

Peter, this was really great. Like we touched on a lot of really important points. Again, to any business I think. Thank you so much. If people wanna connect with you, follow you, work with your business, buy our products, what's the best way to do

Peter Mann: 33:36

that? Sure. Yeah. Our website is oransi.com or oransi.com. And I'm on LinkedIn at Peter Mann, m a n n.

Isar Meitis: 33:45

Awesome. Peter, thank you so much. This was really great. I appreciate you taking.

Peter Mann: 33:50

Yeah. Thank you so much. Enjoyed it.